Have any of you worked your way through using, or even tried the Manual Guide? My own experience with any Fanuc Conversational goes back a long way, I liked the 3TF-10TF, etc., lathe controls, but I never did like the OMF that seemed to be standard on almost every Leadwell MCV for a couple of years. Those of you that tried the 21MB Manual Guide, is it practical and useful? The OMF version was good for drilling hole patterns, like holes in a row or boltcircles, but pocketing of any kind was not real good.
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Plunge feed was at cutting regular feedrate, almost any kind of down motion would damage the tool. My feeling is that to Fanuc, any kind of Conversational is an afterthought, their real strenght is in reliability, simplicity and regular G-Code programming. Please tell me what you learned about the Manual Guide, I would be very interested in hearing any opinions. Heinz, I used to train people on the Manual Guide on turning and milling and I thought it to be pretty useful. It was not nearly as good as the shopturn on the Siemens though. One thing I did like about it is when you use the Manual guide side of the control it had an NC conversion which would take a Manual Guide program and convert it into a ISO G code program. Since the Manual Guide puts out code like G1440 or G1010.
Things like that with each one having it's own purpose. If you did not have a cam system you could write a program in the Manual Guide machine do the nc conversion take it out and for the most part put it another machine. So, you could use this as a cheap post prcessor. Hello Nomgis: Thanks for the answer, I had the question from a shop in Chicago, do you want me to give them your name if they need any extra help? If so, write back and tell me how they can contact you.
Are you still in the training business? I have contacts and potential jobs all over the country, I've been fulltime in the CNC lathe and mill training for the last 30 years, right now I only take on jobs that really interest me. I could refer you if you like. Take a look at my website, that is where I get most of my new contacts. Sorry for kicking an old topic but wanted to reply anyway.
After working with fanuc manual guide for a few years now i have to say that its pretty usefull and really not an aftertought. First i used it only for milling on the live tooled lathes, it has enough cycles to get 2D things done, roughing, finishing, pocketing, inside outside ect. 1You put the tooldata in the toolist (endmill, drill ect) 2then make a blank figure to simulate, 3 you decide cutting strategy and choose upcut/downcut, cutting feed, plunging feed, cutting dept ect. 4 draw the figure in a free-line with the use of a very nifty drawing system, or you can choose from standard figures like squares, hex sleeves and whatsmore.
5 simulate and start cutting For example, today i had to mill out 4 holes to a bigger dia, it took me 2 minutes to make the program and have it simulated. I just copied an example program and changed a few sizes, and number of holes. The turning options are great aswell, im starting to invest time in learning them aswell, it possible to turn a part with an undercut, while choosing different feedrates for straight cutting and undercutting, then make a cycle to cut the rest material without cutting air, choose cutting dept, first cut last cut, all is possible. Then the grooving options are numerous aswell, for example if you have a deep and wide groove, you can choose to cut in steps of dept, then it widens(possible to choose from left to right, right to left, middle to left or middle to right) and also you can make the dept steps incrementally increase or decrease. And it doesnt matter what form of groove, V - round-partially angled with odd rounds and curves.
Just saying that the fanuc manual guide really isnt a retared piece of software, just when you take the time to get to know it like you took the time to learn G-code and standard cycles, and it will pay off.
On lathes, I love it. On mills I think it is virtually useless. For turning (especially mill-turn), it really simplifies programming. I have had customers who have never had anything to do with programming get up and running and confident within days of machine installation. Plus there is the added advantage of being able to convert to G-code format if you prefer that.
I prefer to leave the programs in I-Guide (as I call it) format, because they usually store in less memory. You can simulate machining with the 3D graphics and the programming macros are quite extensive.
Milling I-Guide on the other hand is very basic. Only drilling/tapping functions, island milling/pocketing for basic shapes (rectangles, ellipses, circles), slotting, and simple (one depth) profile milling. Simulation leaves a lot to be desired, with the whole program being simulated with one tool size. That said, the machining centres that we have supplied with Manual Guide-I are lower end machines, so maybe they have lower end software. I AGREE WITH OZEMALE6T9.
FOR TURNING AND MILL/TURN THE SOFTWARE IS OF GREAT USE AND VERY POWERFUL. LACKING IN MILL FUNCTIONS THOUGH, BUT STILL USEFULL IN SIMPLE THINGS LIKE MAKING FIXTURES FOR MILL/TURN WORK. THE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS WHAT TYPE OF CONTROL DO YOU WANT TO USE THIS ON. I USE THIS SOFTWARE ON THE FANUC 18i TB.
THERE ARE OTHER BENIFETS TO MANUAL GUIDE i. IT GIVES YOU EXTREMLY FLEXIBLE EDITING CAPABILITIES WITH ALLOWING YOU TO COPY,PASTE,MERGE FROM DIFFERENT PROGRAM SOURCES AND FORMATS.ALSO THERE IS MEASURING CYCLES FOR PROBING, FIXED FORM SENTENCES FOR CUSTOM PROGRAMS,CANNED CYCLES, AND MACROS. OUTSIDE OF OKUMAS IGF IT IS ONE OF THE BEST CONVERSATIONAL SOFTWARES I HAVE SEEN.
Hi My only Fanuc experience is with 31i on a horizontal machining centre. Didn't have proper manuals so have learned by trial and error. It probably helped that I was new to Fanuc and I quickly abandoned the old program format for the new cycle/figure format. The logic behind it becomes clear. As mentioned previously in this thread, the program is more concise and easier to manipulate. Free Form figure creation is extremely useful (no calculator required).
A lot still needs to be done to improve some of the milling cycles but in general you can get them to behave the way you want with experience, and you no longer have to memorise a bunch of address codes. I also like the intuitive file management, fixed form sentences and shortcuts to the offset tables. Im after the same as thread starter, but im wondering what would be best, manual guide i or edgecam, mastercam, gibscam? We usually have allot of different parts but mostly the same, just a few differences here and there. Im thinking that changing speed, feed and depth of cut would go faster on manual guide, then a cam software?
Mostly easy part's we program, but we want to be able to do some milling work, pocketing etc. Anyone know if it's possible to import drawing? Is writing on parts an option? Turning of cordinate system to drill and tap with angle head? Load monitor? And everything else that's nice to know. I have experience with Okuma's IGF and Fanuc's FAPT.
If this is better great Omega om80 Fanuc 18iTB. Hi, The main differences with the 'standard' format as far as I am aware are the new display, shortcuts via softkeys and new embedded cycles. The 31i we have can be run using the original 'hard key' displays also, but I find the manual guide interface a lot more logical and user friendly. As previously stated, the cycles are a little clunky, due to the varying opinion in previous posts my guess is that they are still being tweaked by Fanuc.
The most useful cycles milling-wise are the 'partial' contours and the mega-easy 'chamfer' cycles. As others have also suggested, don't expect to get great documentation of the new functions - you will be lucky if you get anything other than the standard set of tomes. Programs are written in what I would describe as a cycle/figure format. You can save templates (fixed form sentences) of your standard program restart sequence, and simply insert a 'cycle', be it drilling/facing/contouring, along with a 'figure' (contour/pocket shape or pattern of holes). This is all done with on-screen pop-up menus. Drawing a contour is very similar to Heidenhain Free Contouring (but easier). Shapes can be defined with limited information, and options given when more than one possibilty exists.
These can be inserted into a main program or defined as a sub program. When these cycles/figures are inserted into the program it all looks like a load of complete gibberish gobbledygook for a while, but you do get used to it and find that you can make something of it after a while - but there is actually no need as whenever 'alter' is selected and your cursor is within the cycle the menu screens pop up and you enter the info into the boxes as before. You can also convert the program to standard G-code to run on other controls. Yes, there are engraving cycles available (may/may not be an 'option').
The string required is inserted in the program as a comment, so if you want to create incremental serial numbering programs you will need to get your thinking cap on. I don't believe there is a facilty to import drawing files.
I haven't really looked at tool load monitoring - but it is a separate entity as far as I am aware. Three-dimensional co-ordinate rotation is still an 'option' much to my displeasure. If you are only working in the standard working planes, you choose the cycle to suit - I had quite a lucky escape thanks to this, when I failed to re-define my working plane - the new cycles override G17/18/19. Powerful parametric programs can be created using a combination of the new cycles and a bit of macro b programming.
Hi, Sorry, don't have experience with FAPT or Mazatrol enough to make comparison, but it is quite simple to apply different cycles to a defined figure and likewise apply the same cycle to multiple figures. Copy/Paste is useful in that respect.
Chamfering cycles are designed for 90deg inclusive cutters, enter the diameter at the end of the tool to find tool offset, and enter the radius into the tool table as normal. Just apply the cycle to your contour, setting chamfer size and what they call the 'ejection stroke'. This bit is useful to reposition your cutter to avoid pocket walls/floors/corners - or simply to use a fresh part of the cutter. I'm not sure if this is relevant to all control models (have also had a look at our Puma with an 0i control and there are subtle differences), but on our horizontal mill with 31i, 3D simulation is not possible while running program - only while editing. Menu-driven Measuring cycles are also available but I don't have that option. I'm not sure if this is relevant to all control models (have also had a look at our Puma with an 0i control and there are subtle differences), but on our horizontal mill with 31i, 3D simulation is not possible while running program - only while editing.I believe this is the case with all controls having MGi. The problem is the amount of system resources required to run the 3D view.
The machine is just not capable of handling the 3D simulation and the machine control at the same time. That said, you can run toolpath simulation during cutting, which is really all you need anyway, since 3D detail is very limited if you are viewing reasonable size parts.
Fanuc Programming Manual Pdf
Another problem I have found with the resource issue is when you have a PMC controlled device, such as a tool changer, and you change to/from the MGi screen during operation of this device. If the machine is doing a tool change, and you change to/from the MGi screen, the tool sequence can get messed up. In some cases, this has resulted in incorrect tool offset data being used, and the result is not pleasant.
Operator beware.
Manual Guide I is great on Lathe, has some minor issues on the twin-turret/spindle machine that I ran years ago, but it has probably been improved on the 31i Control. I'm sure for 2 axis its solid. MGi Mill its not so hot, fine if your just doing simple pockets, or bolt patterns. Siemens, powerful but cumbersome to use, everything is on a different screen.
Heidenhain, one of the most powerful conversational controls on the market, both mill and lathe. I have seen a lot of people over the years struggle with the control as they are a bit different than everyone else, but on the other hand I know guys(few) who are wizards on the things. I would have no problem putting a Heidenhain control on the shop floor, only thing holding me back is the machines they are attached to Almost every Conversational is a PITA to use in BG editing mode. If it were me, Fanuc. But I would use a CAM to program and save money not buy MGi option.
MGi has some functions that the 'old' FANUC interface does not. Iindependant I/O Channel for one. You can have your I/O set to 5 on the Settings/Offset page yet while in MGi, you can press 'M CARD' and it goes right to your Flash Card, or on the newer ones, you have the choice between USB and your flash CARD. To change G54 to G55, you can press 55 Alter and it changes. To change Y10.0 to Y12.0, you just press 12.0 and Alter. WHn you have your cursor on many g codes, it will tell you what it is in an area of the display. To select a program to run, in edit mode you just press O-List, highlight the program you want and press input.
That program is now your active program. Copy, Paste, UNDO, yes you saw it right UNDO, and REDO. Lots more but you.
Mick, For 2 axis turning, siemens shop turn knocks the pants off the fanuc manual guide. Way simpler to use and more powerfull. It is almost as simple as prototrak.
We looked at fanuc and siemens when we were deciding what lathes to get and laughed at the fanuc in comparrison, so we went with the seimens and havent regretted it. For 3 axis lathe (c axis), I think the siemens is also miles ahead, from the addional options I've seen on our control (although we can't use.) I have looked at millling, and again the seimens looks way ahead of manual guide over fanuc. I believe it can now import dxf files and it has neat features like area clearance cycles. You really don't need a cam system if you have shopmill.
I looked at manual guide on our fanuc mlls (oimc and oimd) and it is a joke to me. That said, we're fanuc orientated but prog everything in mastercam offline. Xy falcon manual. Milling is more involved shapes and more ops than 2 axis turning, so as hockey guy said, you can get a 2 axis prog done on a siemens before mastercam is fired up. But you wouldnt want to prog a milling job on the machine as it's not running and earnign you money while you're doing it (yeh I know there's background edit but does anyone really use this if you're doing complicated work?).
The only thing i would ask is how many people in his area know siemens? If he wants to get an operator locally, it may be best to stick with what everyone knows. Have a look on practical machinist as well - this subject has been beat to death. Just to correct the OP. Manual Guide i is a conversational programming control option, not a control itself. It typical comes on the Oi-TD series as that's Fanuc's most basic control.
EzGuide i is another conversational programming option from Fanuc. Manual Guide i is accessed via the C.A.P Softkey depending on the Machine Builder implementation.
That said, for basic turning Manual Guide i is fine. EzGuide is better. Mazatrol for basic turning is still hard to beat.
It's the only shop floor programming that I would even allow. Anything beyond that is a waste of spindle time.
Using them to program anything other than the most basic work is bad practice. CNC Machine Time is the most expensive in any shop.
Machines make money when the spindles are turning and making parts. All the controls have their pluses and minuses. I'm partial to Fanuc because of the standardization and bullet-proof performance. Fanuc's MTF (Mean Time to Failure) is over 27 years for the latest 30i Series (30, 31, 32 and PC variants). Siemens comes in at about half of that. All the other controls come in substantially lower than that. Tim - have you used shop turn from siemens?
I have never used mazatrol and I know everyone likes it, but from what I have seen of it it doesn't look as nice to use as shopturn. James- good statement. We had an issue early on with our siemens where it couldn't count (there was no parts count at all in the 810 - who'd have thunk, a lathe that can't count???) and it threw alarms occasionally on boot up.
We had to estop and off/on which would cure it but it was a pita. The MTB sent out siemens and the tech was great and cured the bootup (although he swore he never touched that fault but 3 years on the machine has NEVER had that problem following his visit ) and he wrote a R variable prog we call within all progs that part counts and gives cycle time as well. Tim-talking MTBF - we have 3x oimc, 1oimd, 2x 31ia5 controls that are a combination of 24 years old (that we have had them). The only things that have failed are on the oimc machines (oldest of all) which has been an MPG handwheel, 1x spindle motor fan (on top of machine), 1x cabinet fan, and 1x capacitor (the main big one) on the control. All in all not much at all, and fanuc didn't make all those parts anyway.
For the siemens lathes (only 2) we have had for a combination of 5 years, nothing has gone wrong. Now that I've said this, a sh1te storm of breakdowns is coming my way. Tim - have you used shop turn from siemens? I have never used mazatrol and I know everyone likes it, but from what I have seen of it it doesn't look as nice to use as shopturn. James- good statement. We had an issue early on with our siemens where it couldn't count (there was no parts count at all in the 810 - who'd have thunk, a lathe that can't count???) and it threw alarms occasionally on boot up.
We had to estop and off/on which would cure it but it was a pita. The MTB sent out siemens and the tech was great and cured the bootup (although he swore he never touched that fault but 3 years on the machine has NEVER had that problem following his visit ) and he wrote a R variable prog we call within all progs that part counts and gives cycle time as well.
Tim-talking MTBF - we have 3x oimc, 1oimd, 2x 31ia5 controls that are a combination of 24 years old (that we have had them). The only things that have failed are on the oimc machines (oldest of all) which has been an MPG handwheel, 1x spindle motor fan (on top of machine), 1x cabinet fan, and 1x capacitor (the main big one) on the control. All in all not much at all, and fanuc didn't make all those parts anyway. For the siemens lathes (only 2) we have had for a combination of 5 years, nothing has gone wrong. Now that I've said this, a sh1te storm of breakdowns is coming my way I've played with Siemens ShopTurn and it looks pretty good.
After being trained on Mazatrol many moons ago, it still hard to beat for basic turning. That siad, I'm still not a fan of programming at the machine.
It should be avoided for everything other than the most basic. I have Macro Programs for cutting jaws and most of the utilitarian stuff you might need to do quickly. You also have the issue of ISO and API certifications. You are better off if your company doesn't have a defined procedure for programming and machining. If you have a documented procedure that specifies off-line CAM for programming and you screw up a part because you violated that procedure, pray you're not a facility with an API stamp. If you lose your API stamp during an audit, you are out of business and all your material inventory just became scrap.
The places I do work for that have API stamps guard that certification like its the Holy Grail. Even more so since the Deepwater Horizon catastrophe. I should have made my post clearer. I'm aware that the MGI is a conversational function on the Fanuc control This person is only looking at purchasing two mills, (no turning). Siemens support here I believe is pretty poor as well. As this person knows Heidenhain well, and there are number of experienced Heidenhain operators locally, I'm thinking that he will be best with Heidenhain, The stuff they're doing is pretty basic, and they don't have the need for a full time programmer. Again, thanks for the feedback everyone.
I appreciate it. Mick - no brainer Heidenhain it is. Again that knocks the pants off fanuc for programming on the machine and getting the job going. Half of the south of England has heidenhain for this reason, and it's big for 5ax because of it's ease of use (cycle 19). You can also get a stand alone programming box so you don't have to program on the machine.
What's the weather like down under? It's been wet and bloody freezing here and we're only 2x weeks away from 'flaming June'? Haha, 'flaming June'. It has been wet and cold here, and we've had a couple of frosts.
I never used to mind the winter months, but now I am older, I'm less entertained by them. Yes, my opinion is that the Heidenhain is the most suitable option. The last company I worked at had two borers from the UK, which were retrofitted with Heidenhain, and two five axis machines that had TNC 530i controls on them. They never missed a beat, and they were easy to programme.
FANUC Picture offers an easy way to create customised operator and HMI screens for complex processes and provides all the functions and features of modern HMI software tools. It supports objects, animations, data and multi language, and features a macro language to run routines to perform tasks. Screens are compiled and stored in the CNC Flash-ROM (FROM) memory and rendered directly by the CNC without requiring a Windows® operating system or runtime. Picture reduces operator errors, simplifies operator work, improves productivity and makes machine and process control easier.
MANUAL GUIDE i a user-friendly conversational programming platform that makes it easy to perform create part programs right on the shop floor. The innovative programming enables development from a drawing to a production part in a very short time. Thanks to MANUAL GUIDE i, FANUC CNCs can be programmed very easily and quickly, for turning, milling and compound machining. Self-explanatory menus and graphic simulations guide the user through the programming, producing highly efficient results even for complex machining processes.
MANUAL GUIDE i software is based on the ISO code format and has an ergonomic CNC user interface for programming cycles. It uses a graphical user interface with user-friendly icons which allow you to interactively create part programs in just a few steps. All of the relevant information is displayed on one CNC screen.
Having to constantly change between screens is thus avoided as is the risk of getting lost in the numerous pop-up screens. Features:.
Operator friendly programming environment. Advanced Cycle Machining (Turning and Milling). Powerful profile calculation. Seamless environment switching.
Tool management function. Set-up guidance. Residual cutting. Background machining simulation Need some help getting started with MANUAL GUIDE i?
You can view some webinars, hosted by Modern Machine Shop, that were designed to be quick reference guides to get you up and running in no time.
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